The Sober Curator Podcast’s 13th episode welcomes Michael Toscano, a Brooklyn-based hospitality veteran who transitioned from mixing award-winning martinis at Dante, once crowned the world’s #1 bar, to championing non-alcoholic spirits with The Pathfinder. Toscano’s journey, candidly shared with hosts Alysse Bryson, Tamar Routly, and Alex Nyman, offers a front-row seat to the changing landscape of sobriety—one where grown-up, complex zero-proof beverages and authentic community take center stage.
The conversation kicks off by debunking the myth that sobriety is all rainbows, butterflies, and immediate self-improvement. Toscano recalls a pivotal personal moment three months into his sober life: a candid confrontation with his wife, Brooke, on a train platform. Her honest question—“Why are you being such a dick right now?”—pulled back the curtain on the emotional work required in recovery. Michael realized sobriety wasn’t just about subtracting alcohol, but about facing truths, processing emotions, and building new habits.
Having grown up around recovery, he knew the lingo and community, but it took lived sobriety to understand the effort and self-discovery truly involved. “That was the moment I really realized it was about to get hard,” Toscano admits, setting the stage for a conversation about meaningful transformation beyond abstinence.
From Whisky to Pathfinder: Authenticity in the Non-Alcoholic Movement
Transitioning from serving (and selling) premium bourbon at Woodford Reserve to leading the charge for The Pathfinder, one of the fastest-growing non-alcoholic spirits brands, was both practical and deeply personal for Toscano. What made the leap possible? Supportive colleagues and a corporate culture that embraced, rather than shunned, sobriety. The validation was powerful: “We got you 100%. Don’t worry about it.”
Yet, authenticity beckoned. Toscano ultimately left his whiskey role, not out of shame, but because it no longer reflected his truth—paving the way to work with non-alcoholic brands. A chance encounter with The Pathfinder team during Seattle Cocktail Week, connections forged with like-minded friends, and the eventual opportunity to build Pathfinder’s presence in New York marked his new chapter.
Moving Beyond Juice Boxes: The Maturation of Zero-Proof Culture
A recurring motif in Toscano’s dialogue is the call for sophistication in non-alcoholic options: “Death to the juice box.” He laments the typical syrupy, simplistic ‘mocktails’ offered at too many bars—an afterthought compared to ambitious, complex cocktail menus. For Toscano, true hospitality means everyone at the bar, drinker or not, feels valued and celebrated.
He envisions a near future where zero-proof becomes the norm, akin to the vegan or vegetarian menu evolution. No more “lemon, ginger, and simple syrup” as the only non-alcoholic option—he demands drinks “with the same amount of enthusiasm and dedication” as their spirited counterparts.
With insight and humor, Toscano and Bryson discuss generational shifts: Gen Z is drinking less, and by 2030, alcoholic consumption may carry a cultural taboo similar to smoking today. Still, Toscano predicts a rise in “low-ABV” culture—drinks with reduced alcohol— alongside the continued growth of no-alcohol alternatives.
The “zebra striping” trend is proof: consumers alternate between alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages in a single night, blending experience and well-being. Ultimately, the point isn’t prohibition—it’s choice, balance, and belonging.
Community, Service, and the Pay-It-Forward Effect
Toscano’s impact extends beyond drinks. Moments of personal connection—an email from someone 50 days sober, inspired by a single conversation—fuel his passion. In his words, working for The Pathfinder allows him to serve others authentically, “the closest thing I can do in my life to being of service.” This sentiment echoes throughout the recovery community: show up authentically, help without expectation, and celebrate every milestone, no matter how small.
Episode 13 of The Sober Curator Podcast reveals a movement as much about quality drinks as it is about deep, honest living. Toscano’s story of resilience, innovation, and hospitality shows that you don’t have to choose between great vibes and sober living. As he urges, getting sober is just the start—staying sober, showing up for others, and demanding the best for everyone at the bar is where the real magic happens.
Listen to Episode 13 Now
Hosted by Alysse Bryson & Tamar Routly, and produced by Podcast Impact Studio, The Sober Curator Podcast brings sober lifestyle, pop culture, & recovery to the mic. Alongside Alysse & Tamar, rotating global contributors join as co-hosts to explore zero-proof drinks, sober travel, quit lit, entertainment, & mental health. This is sober media with personality, perspective, & a glitter bomb of honesty. Sober-curious or living alcohol-free, we’ve got you! We’re not here to help you get sober. We’re here to help you live sober: and love it.
You spend at least 40 hours a week at work. For a lot of people in recovery, that's 40 hours of navigating a culture that doesn't know you exist, or worse, doesn't care.
Eliza Zarka is changing that. She runs the National Recovery Friendly Workplace Institute, which certifies employers as recovery friendly, and she took an idea that started at a New Hampshire ski resort and turned it into a national movement with bipartisan federal backing. Alysse and Sober Curator contributor Sarah, a fractional HR consultant in long-term recovery, get into what it actually takes to make a job safe to be sober in.
In this episode:
Why ”there are already people in recovery that are working for you” is the sentence that changes an employer's mind
The four pillars of Recovery Friendly Workplace certification: culture, hiring, benefits, and education
How to bring this to your HR department without disclosing your own recovery
Alysse on 2006 versus 2026: why she hid it for years, and the 2016 job interview where she said it out loud on purpose
The company that made the first hour of its holiday party completely alcohol-free, with leadership required to be there
Why the holiday gift bottle of wine tells you the company knows nothing about you
Coffee tastings, tea tastings, dirty soda tastings: team building that isn't a wine flight
Pop culture close: ”The Office,” ”Parks and Rec,” and the true crime documentary habit that may be a problem
Sober Shots:
”There are already people in recovery that are working for you.” (Eliza Zarka)
”When you're in an interview, you're interviewing the company just as much as they're interviewing you.” (Alysse Bryson)
Mentioned in this episode:
National Recovery Friendly Workplace Institute: https://rfwinstitute.org
Backstage with The Sober Curator: https://thesobercurator.com/backstage-with-the-sober-curator/
The Sober Curator Business Rolodex, free listings for sober business owners: https://thesobercurator.com/the-sober-curator-rolodex/
Nothing in this episode is legal or HR advice. Talk to an employment attorney about your specific situation.
Getting sober matters. Staying sober matters more.
SEASON 2 MERCH: https://shopthesobercurator.com/
This episode is brought to you by Aura House. Save 10% with code TSC10: https://go.shopmy.us/p-64140200
SC RESOURCES:
– Alcohol + Substance Use Disorder Guide
– Recovery Nonprofit Resource Guide
– LGBTQ+ Recovery Resource Guide
CONNECT: www.thesobercurator.com | The Sober Sip newsletter: https://www.thesobercuratornewsletter.com/ | @thesobercurator on Instagram, X, TikTok, YouTube + Pinterest
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Hosted by Alysse Bryson with co-host + producer Tamar Routly. For informational and entertainment purposes only; not a substitute for professional advice.
Music: TSC S2 theme ”Sober Shots” created by Alysse Bryson using Suno AI, under Suno’s commercial license.
HAPPY EVERY HOUR: Based in the Pacific Northwest, The Pathfinder Nonalcoholic Spirit Alternative Will Become Your New Favorite
Welcome to HAPPY EVERY HOUR, your go-to hub for all things NA (non-alcoholic). We review alcohol-free beers, ciders, wines, spirits, RTDs (ready-to-drink), and share NA cocktail recipes that taste just as good—if not better—than the boozy originals. Whether you’re sober, sober-curious, or just taking a break, this is where great taste meets zero proof.
TRIGGER WARNING: People in early sobriety may want to proceed with caution. Always read labels. Please hydrate responsibly … #becausedrunkneverlooksgood.
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RECOVERY PODCASTLAND & NETWORK at The Sober Curator is your audio haven for all things sobriety and recovery. We’re your bee-zy sober podcast enthusiasts, curating the best shows that educate, inspire, and entertain in the alcohol-free space.
Our archives are neatly organized so you can easily explore Recovery Podcastland—featuring our favorite recovery-based podcasts from across the globe—and the TSC Podcast Network, where we share our own original shows on sober lifestyle, pop culture, travel, entertainment, and more.
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Recovery is hard 24/7, 365 – Please know that resources are available
If you or someone you know is experiencing difficulties surrounding alcoholism, addiction, or mental illness, please reach out and ask for help. People everywhere can and want to help; you just have to know where to look. And continue to look until you find what works for you. Click here for a list of regional and national resources. If your life or someone else’s is in imminent danger, please call 911. If you are in crisis and need immediate help, please call: 988.
