The Sober Curator Podcast’s 13th episode welcomes Michael Toscano, a Brooklyn-based hospitality veteran who transitioned from mixing award-winning martinis at Dante, once crowned the world’s #1 bar, to championing non-alcoholic spirits with The Pathfinder. Toscano’s journey, candidly shared with hosts Alysse Bryson, Tamar Routly, and Alex Nyman, offers a front-row seat to the changing landscape of sobriety—one where grown-up, complex zero-proof beverages and authentic community take center stage.
The conversation kicks off by debunking the myth that sobriety is all rainbows, butterflies, and immediate self-improvement. Toscano recalls a pivotal personal moment three months into his sober life: a candid confrontation with his wife, Brooke, on a train platform. Her honest question—“Why are you being such a dick right now?”—pulled back the curtain on the emotional work required in recovery. Michael realized sobriety wasn’t just about subtracting alcohol, but about facing truths, processing emotions, and building new habits.
Having grown up around recovery, he knew the lingo and community, but it took lived sobriety to understand the effort and self-discovery truly involved. “That was the moment I really realized it was about to get hard,” Toscano admits, setting the stage for a conversation about meaningful transformation beyond abstinence.
From Whisky to Pathfinder: Authenticity in the Non-Alcoholic Movement
Transitioning from serving (and selling) premium bourbon at Woodford Reserve to leading the charge for The Pathfinder, one of the fastest-growing non-alcoholic spirits brands, was both practical and deeply personal for Toscano. What made the leap possible? Supportive colleagues and a corporate culture that embraced, rather than shunned, sobriety. The validation was powerful: “We got you 100%. Don’t worry about it.”
Yet, authenticity beckoned. Toscano ultimately left his whiskey role, not out of shame, but because it no longer reflected his truth—paving the way to work with non-alcoholic brands. A chance encounter with The Pathfinder team during Seattle Cocktail Week, connections forged with like-minded friends, and the eventual opportunity to build Pathfinder’s presence in New York marked his new chapter.
Moving Beyond Juice Boxes: The Maturation of Zero-Proof Culture
A recurring motif in Toscano’s dialogue is the call for sophistication in non-alcoholic options: “Death to the juice box.” He laments the typical syrupy, simplistic ‘mocktails’ offered at too many bars—an afterthought compared to ambitious, complex cocktail menus. For Toscano, true hospitality means everyone at the bar, drinker or not, feels valued and celebrated.
He envisions a near future where zero-proof becomes the norm, akin to the vegan or vegetarian menu evolution. No more “lemon, ginger, and simple syrup” as the only non-alcoholic option—he demands drinks “with the same amount of enthusiasm and dedication” as their spirited counterparts.
With insight and humor, Toscano and Bryson discuss generational shifts: Gen Z is drinking less, and by 2030, alcoholic consumption may carry a cultural taboo similar to smoking today. Still, Toscano predicts a rise in “low-ABV” culture—drinks with reduced alcohol— alongside the continued growth of no-alcohol alternatives.
The “zebra striping” trend is proof: consumers alternate between alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages in a single night, blending experience and well-being. Ultimately, the point isn’t prohibition—it’s choice, balance, and belonging.
Community, Service, and the Pay-It-Forward Effect
Toscano’s impact extends beyond drinks. Moments of personal connection—an email from someone 50 days sober, inspired by a single conversation—fuel his passion. In his words, working for The Pathfinder allows him to serve others authentically, “the closest thing I can do in my life to being of service.” This sentiment echoes throughout the recovery community: show up authentically, help without expectation, and celebrate every milestone, no matter how small.
Episode 13 of The Sober Curator Podcast reveals a movement as much about quality drinks as it is about deep, honest living. Toscano’s story of resilience, innovation, and hospitality shows that you don’t have to choose between great vibes and sober living. As he urges, getting sober is just the start—staying sober, showing up for others, and demanding the best for everyone at the bar is where the real magic happens.
Listen to Episode 13 Now
Getting sober matters. Staying sober matters more. That’s the whole premise.
The Sober Curator Podcast brings sober lifestyle, pop culture and recovery to the mic with personality, perspective and a glitter bomb of honesty. Founder and host Alysse Bryson (sober since May 1, 2006, and self-described Kevin Bacon of Recovery) is joined by co-host and show producer Tamar Routly of Podcast Impact Studio, plus a rotating bench of global Sober Curator contributors who pull up a chair as co-hosts.
What we cover, episode to episode:
Happy Every Hour: zero-proof drinks, NA beer, spirits and cocktails, reviewed by people who actually drink them.
Health and Wellness: mental health, physical health and what recovery looks like on a Tuesday.
Lifestyle: dating, parenting, shopping, style and the everyday logistics of alcohol-free living.
Entertainment: quit lit, movies, TV, music, sports and celebrity sobriety, rated with our proprietary Sobees.
Spiritual Gangster: Jesus to astrology, stoicism to the Celtic calendar.
Travel: sober events, sober retreats, Sobriety in the City and global travel without a drink in hand.
We also review other sober podcasts on Recovery Podcastland, dig into sponsored product spotlights, and go deep with contributors on how they got sober and what keeps them there. New episodes drop as video on YouTube and audio everywhere you listen.
Want more? BACKSTAGE with The Sober Curator is our membership community with Media Nights, Studio Nights, Edutainment Nights and The Sober Curator Mixtape, a monthly mini-zine delivered in a cassette case. Details at https://thesobercurator.com/backstage-with-the-sober-curator/
Whether you’re sober curious or decades in, we’ve got you. We’re not here to help you get sober. We’re here to help you live sober and love it.
Rate, review and subscribe. It takes 60 seconds and we will love you forever.
Contact: thesobercurator@gmail.com
A.J. Daulerio got sober in the middle of the Hulk Hogan trial. Three months in, every defect of character he had was being read to a jury. He calls it fourth step dinner theater.
Then he built The Small Bow, the recovery publication Alysse was embarrassed she didn’t know about: literary essays, free Zoom meetings every day of the week, a podcast, and now a book. Two magazine people and a producer try to name the category they’re in, and mostly fail.
In this episode:
- Why AJ interviews himself in the car (and who he pretends is asking)
- “Sober BuzzFeed” vs. “literary meat”: what each of us is building and who it’s for
- The Harper’s story about AA that made AJ pay $100 a year, and why nobody writes for people who are past rock bottom and a little adrift
- Abstinence, sobriety, recovery: why 12-step is one of nine things AJ does
- The Hulk Hogan trial, the Uber driver who didn’t care, and the lesson in humility
- The Small Book, out Dec. 29
Heads up: this one goes to some dark places, including a reader AJ lost and a friend Alysse lost. Take care while listening.
CHAPTERS
00:00 The train, off the tracks
01:28 AJ interviews himself in the car
05:34 How Alysse found The Small Bow
11:39 “Chicken soup for the dark night of the soul”
14:40 Are we wellness? Sound baths and trust falls
15:19 Sober ten years, and the problems get classier
18:54 Abstinence, sobriety, recovery: 12-step is one of nine
26:35 The Harper’s story that started everything
29:58 Literary meat vs. sober BuzzFeed
41:15 Fourth step dinner theater: the Hulk Hogan trial
46:57 “I’m the writer. I’m the human.”
48:47 “So you met Hulk Hogan?”
57:17 What AJ would tell year one
01:01:59 “Fast-forward to the part they get sober”
Sober Shots:
“You’re allowed to build your whole life around a routine nobody will ever write a headline about.” (Alysse Bryson)
“All the things that I thought were being taken away from me were also the things I needed to let go of the most.” (A.J. Daulerio)
Mentioned in this episode:
– The Small Bow – The Small Book, out Dec. 29 – I’m The Sober Curator, and I Just Found The Small Bow – S2E17 with Paulina Pinsky – Backstage with The Sober Curator
Getting sober matters. Staying sober matters more.
SEASON 2 MERCH: https://shopthesobercurator.com/
SC RESOURCES:
– Meet the Contributors – Alcohol + Substance Use Disorder Guide – Recovery Nonprofit Resource Guide – LGBTQ+ Recovery Resource Guide – Family Resource Guide
CONNECT: www.thesobercurator.com | The Sober Sip newsletter: https://www.thesobercuratornewsletter.com/ | @thesobercurator on Instagram, X, TikTok, YouTube + Pinterest
Love the show? Rate, review + follow. It takes 60 seconds and helps more people find us. Feedback + guest ideas: thesobercurator@gmail.com
Hosted by Alysse Bryson with co-host + producer Tamar Routly. For informational and entertainment purposes only; not a substitute for professional advice.
Music: TSC S2 theme “Sober Shots” created by Alysse Bryson using Suno AI, under Suno’s commercial license.
HAPPY EVERY HOUR: Based in the Pacific Northwest, The Pathfinder Nonalcoholic Spirit Alternative Will Become Your New Favorite
Welcome to HAPPY EVERY HOUR, your go-to hub for all things NA (non-alcoholic). We review alcohol-free beers, ciders, wines, spirits, RTDs (ready-to-drink), and share NA cocktail recipes that taste just as good—if not better—than the boozy originals. Whether you’re sober, sober-curious, or just taking a break, this is where great taste meets zero proof.
TRIGGER WARNING: People in early sobriety may want to proceed with caution. Always read labels. Please hydrate responsibly … #becausedrunkneverlooksgood.
🛍️ Submit a Product for Review NA beverages, sober-friendly tools, alcohol-free brands, and products built for the way our audience actually lives. Submit your product →
RECOVERY PODCASTLAND & NETWORK at The Sober Curator is your audio haven for all things sobriety and recovery. We’re your bee-zy sober podcast enthusiasts, curating the best shows that educate, inspire, and entertain in the alcohol-free space.
Our archives are neatly organized so you can easily explore Recovery Podcastland—featuring our favorite recovery-based podcasts from across the globe—and the TSC Podcast Network, where we share our own original shows on sober lifestyle, pop culture, travel, entertainment, and more.
Whether you’re seeking practical recovery tips, personal stories, or uplifting inspiration, this is your go-to listening guide. 🎧 Submit a Podcast for Review: Recovery Podcastland coverage and reviews. Shows that earn their place in our audience’s queue. Submit your podcast →
Recovery is hard 24/7, 365 – Please know that resources are available
If you or someone you know is experiencing difficulties surrounding alcoholism, addiction, or mental illness, please reach out and ask for help. People everywhere can and want to help; you just have to know where to look. And continue to look until you find what works for you. Click here for a list of regional and national resources. If your life or someone else’s is in imminent danger, please call 911. If you are in crisis and need immediate help, please call: 988.
