The Sober Curator Podcast’s 13th episode welcomes Michael Toscano, a Brooklyn-based hospitality veteran who transitioned from mixing award-winning martinis at Dante, once crowned the world’s #1 bar, to championing non-alcoholic spirits with The Pathfinder. Toscano’s journey, candidly shared with hosts Alysse Bryson, Tamar Routly, and Alex Nyman, offers a front-row seat to the changing landscape of sobriety—one where grown-up, complex zero-proof beverages and authentic community take center stage.
The conversation kicks off by debunking the myth that sobriety is all rainbows, butterflies, and immediate self-improvement. Toscano recalls a pivotal personal moment three months into his sober life: a candid confrontation with his wife, Brooke, on a train platform. Her honest question—“Why are you being such a dick right now?”—pulled back the curtain on the emotional work required in recovery. Michael realized sobriety wasn’t just about subtracting alcohol, but about facing truths, processing emotions, and building new habits.
Having grown up around recovery, he knew the lingo and community, but it took lived sobriety to understand the effort and self-discovery truly involved. “That was the moment I really realized it was about to get hard,” Toscano admits, setting the stage for a conversation about meaningful transformation beyond abstinence.
From Whisky to Pathfinder: Authenticity in the Non-Alcoholic Movement
Transitioning from serving (and selling) premium bourbon at Woodford Reserve to leading the charge for The Pathfinder, one of the fastest-growing non-alcoholic spirits brands, was both practical and deeply personal for Toscano. What made the leap possible? Supportive colleagues and a corporate culture that embraced, rather than shunned, sobriety. The validation was powerful: “We got you 100%. Don’t worry about it.”
Yet, authenticity beckoned. Toscano ultimately left his whiskey role, not out of shame, but because it no longer reflected his truth—paving the way to work with non-alcoholic brands. A chance encounter with The Pathfinder team during Seattle Cocktail Week, connections forged with like-minded friends, and the eventual opportunity to build Pathfinder’s presence in New York marked his new chapter.
Moving Beyond Juice Boxes: The Maturation of Zero-Proof Culture
A recurring motif in Toscano’s dialogue is the call for sophistication in non-alcoholic options: “Death to the juice box.” He laments the typical syrupy, simplistic ‘mocktails’ offered at too many bars—an afterthought compared to ambitious, complex cocktail menus. For Toscano, true hospitality means everyone at the bar, drinker or not, feels valued and celebrated.
He envisions a near future where zero-proof becomes the norm, akin to the vegan or vegetarian menu evolution. No more “lemon, ginger, and simple syrup” as the only non-alcoholic option—he demands drinks “with the same amount of enthusiasm and dedication” as their spirited counterparts.
With insight and humor, Toscano and Bryson discuss generational shifts: Gen Z is drinking less, and by 2030, alcoholic consumption may carry a cultural taboo similar to smoking today. Still, Toscano predicts a rise in “low-ABV” culture—drinks with reduced alcohol— alongside the continued growth of no-alcohol alternatives.
The “zebra striping” trend is proof: consumers alternate between alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages in a single night, blending experience and well-being. Ultimately, the point isn’t prohibition—it’s choice, balance, and belonging.
Community, Service, and the Pay-It-Forward Effect
Toscano’s impact extends beyond drinks. Moments of personal connection—an email from someone 50 days sober, inspired by a single conversation—fuel his passion. In his words, working for The Pathfinder allows him to serve others authentically, “the closest thing I can do in my life to being of service.” This sentiment echoes throughout the recovery community: show up authentically, help without expectation, and celebrate every milestone, no matter how small.
Episode 13 of The Sober Curator Podcast reveals a movement as much about quality drinks as it is about deep, honest living. Toscano’s story of resilience, innovation, and hospitality shows that you don’t have to choose between great vibes and sober living. As he urges, getting sober is just the start—staying sober, showing up for others, and demanding the best for everyone at the bar is where the real magic happens.
Listen to Episode 13 Now
Getting sober is one thing—but staying sober? That’s where the real adventure begins.
This show is for you if you’ve ever wondered:
– Where can I find inspiring sober podcasts, apps, and creators?
– How do I give back or stay plugged into the sober community
– What are the best sober-friendly drinks and travel tips?
– Where do I find the good NA drinks that don’t taste like regret?
The Sober Curator is your go-to for sober pop culture, booze-free travel, apps, creators, and community.
We’re not here to help you get sober.
We’re here to help you live sober—and love it.
In this gripping episode, Alysse sits down with filmmaker Benjamin Flaherty for a powerful conversation about the business behind addiction recovery — and why too many families are left carrying shame, confusion, and financial devastation while trying to save their loved ones. Benjamin’s documentary exposes the economics, ethics, and emotional fallout inside the modern treatment industry, while also honoring the parents, advocates, and survivors who continue fighting for change.
From medically assisted treatment debates to the insurance inequalities that shape who gets quality care, this episode goes deeper than most sober conversations dare to go. It’s raw, urgent, and grounded in truth — the kind of discussion that can only happen in a space built for honesty.
Takeaways:
Families aren’t alone. Many parents attend screenings thinking their child’s exploitation or treatment experience was “their fault” — Benjamin’s film shows the systemic patterns behind the pain.
Recovery has an economic engine. Benjamin describes the shocking moment he realized how profitability shapes care, access, and outcomes in the treatment world.
Insurance determines who gets humane care. Both Benjamin and Alysse reflect on how “good insurance” gave them safe recovery environments — an advantage many don’t have.
Pop culture shapes our understanding. Films like Dopesick, Painkiller, Pain Hustlers, Body Brokers help raise awareness but flatten nuance; documentaries add back the complexity.
Conversations spark courage. When parents meet each other at screenings, shame lifts and the real healing begins.
Key Timestamps:
00:06:40 — Benjamin’s turning point: quitting alcohol & cocaine in high-pressure advertising
00:07:45 — The myth of “the next milestone” that will magically fix everything
00:08:20 — Why treatment is the only major health process most people don’t understand
00:26:26 — Parents finding relief and validation through the film
00:27:00 — The economics of recovery: what families aren’t told
00:28:00 — Alysse shares her own insurance-based experience and privilege in treatment access
00:28:20 — Pop culture portrayals of recovery & exploitation (Body Brokers, Painkiller, Dopesick)
00:41:56 — The media Benjamin loves — and what representations resonate most
Resources & Links:
Website / Film https://www.stoptheshuffle.com/
Instagram: @benjaminflaherty
YouTube Trailer: OFFICIAL TRAILER | SHUFFLE
–Alcohol + Substance Use Disorder Guide
–Recovery Nonprofit Resource Guide
–LBGTQ+ Recovery Resource Guide
Connect with Us:
-Website: www.thesobercurator.com
-Facebook: @The Sober Curator
-Instagram: @thesobercurator
-X: @thesobercurator
-YouTube: @thesobercurator
-Pinterest: @thesobercurator
Send Feedback:
If you have a story, feedback, or just want to connect, email us at thesobercurator@gmail.com. We’d love to hear from you!
About:
Sobriety isn’t the end of the party—it’s just the start of a better one. Hosted by Alysse Bryson, media powerhouse and sobriety’s ultimate hype woman, and joined by Sober Curator contributors, The Sober Curator Podcast* delivers bold convos, pop culture deep dives, and zero-proof living that doesn’t suck. Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or just looking for good vibes without the hangover, we’ve got you covered. Subscribe now—because getting sober matters, staying sober matters more.
*The Sober Curator Podcast is a space for open and honest conversations about sobriety, recovery, and alcohol-free living. While we celebrate all paths to a sober lifestyle, some topics discussed may be sensitive or triggering for certain listeners. This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice. If you’re in recovery or exploring sobriety, please take care while listening and seek support from trusted professionals as needed.
HAPPY EVERY HOUR: Based in the Pacific Northwest, The Pathfinder Nonalcoholic Spirit Alternative Will Become Your New Favorite
Welcome to HAPPY EVERY HOUR, your go-to hub for all things NA (non-alcoholic). We review alcohol-free beers, ciders, wines, spirits, RTDs (ready-to-drink), and share NA cocktail recipes that taste just as good—if not better—than the boozy originals. Whether you’re sober, sober-curious, or just taking a break, this is where great taste meets zero proof.
TRIGGER WARNING: People in early sobriety may want to proceed with caution. Always read labels. Please hydrate responsibly … #becausedrunkneverlooksgood.
RECOVERY PODCASTLAND & NETWORK at The Sober Curator is your audio haven for all things sobriety and recovery. We’re your bee-zy sober podcast enthusiasts, curating the best shows that educate, inspire, and entertain in the alcohol-free space.
Our archives are neatly organized so you can easily explore Recovery Podcastland—featuring our favorite recovery-based podcasts from across the globe—and the TSC Podcast Network, where we share our own original shows on sober lifestyle, pop culture, travel, entertainment, and more.
Whether you’re seeking practical recovery tips, personal stories, or uplifting inspiration, this is your go-to listening guide.
Recovery is hard 24/7, 365 – Please know that resources are available
If you or someone you know is experiencing difficulties surrounding alcoholism, addiction, or mental illness, please reach out and ask for help. People everywhere can and want to help; you just have to know where to look. And continue to look until you find what works for you. Click here for a list of regional and national resources. If your life or someone else’s is in imminent danger, please call 911. If you are in crisis and need immediate help, please call: 988.
