In this episode of, You’re Sober! Now What? Podcast, Tamar, and Lane talk about emotional sobriety and why it’s important in order to develop long-term recovery.

Brought up in our conversation today:

How amazing the 90’s music was!
Listen-Question: How to practice acceptance when you are clearly not compatible with someone.
How learning emotional awareness can keep you sober.
Developing a willingness to change so we can improve our emotional intelligence and emotional wellness.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT (TRANSCRIPTION IS NOT PERFECT):

Lane: This is my friend, Tamar Medford,

Tamar: And this is my friend Lane Kennedy.

Lane: And we’re here hanging out with you, talking about all good things.

Tamar: So if you’re a gen X-er because we were talking about the music and the trends of the nineties. That was a good time.

Lane: So good.

Tamar: So good.

Lane: So good. And I just happened to get sober in the nineties. Thank goodness for that.

Tamar: I think 1990 is when I started my career. I was 14.

Lane: Wow. So, oh my God. Okay. You’re aging me

Tamar: Needless to say there are a lot of memories when I listen and go back and listen to nineties music. I had the other day after talking about it though, I added that to my workout list and I had quite a good workout. Like there were just some good tunes back then.

Lane: So good Pearl Jam, Alanis Morissette, Lenny Kravitz.

Tamar: I went to that concert.

Lane: Okay. Sharday, you know, like what happened to Sharday, man? What? Like hello

Tamar: Are half these people still alive? I don’t know. It was real. I, I, uh, yeah, really good music. Really good concerts, Lollapalooza

red, hot chili peppers!

Lane: Tony. Yes!

Tamar: It’s a good time. Yeah. I went to Lenny Kravitz when blind melon opened up and he urinated on the crowd. I saw that I saw that. No, that’s not right, but it was a very memorable concert. Oh yeah. That would be, yeah. Are you going to go away? It was like my theme song.

The cool thing about music is that it locks in memories, right? It’s so emotional. And you can change your mood in a moment.

Yeah, I love it. It’s delicious. I use Pearl jam to write my first book.

Lane: Did you just have like a replay repeat?

Tamar: Yup. It brought back a ton of memories. So that helped. I mean, it can come in handy that’s for sure.

Lane: Yes. Music. It does. Yeah. If you’re, uh, you know, our variety listening to nineties music, we’re so glad that you found us.

Tamar: We are chatting about the now. So we have questions. And if you go to our website, you’re sober now at.com. There’s a little button in the top right-hand corner that you can flick on and enter a question or lane that had this great idea. Would you rather, so reach out to us, let us know and we’ll answer it on the show. And today we actually, we have some questions.

Lane: Yeah, we’ve already gotten the couple, which is exciting.

Tamar: It’s exciting. I love answering questions. I don’t know how I’m going to respond. So I’ll read out the question. So one of our listeners said, how do you practice acceptance when you are not compatible with someone and perhaps later learned a lesson? From this person… ghosting came to mind, like when I very first read, cause it was old behavior, you know?

Lane: Yeah. How do I accept someone when I don’t like them or they don’t when I don’t agree with them when I think they’re an asshole when I think they are wrong. I think that’s. I always go back to it’s like all about me, right? The emotional wellness journey is all about me and trying to find how I fit into the puzzle. Right. We have a huge puzzle called life and each person, each moment is just one little tiny puzzle piece. And half of the puzzle pieces aren’t even flipped over yet.

Okay. So do I accept that person? I don’t know, but they fit in the puzzle. They have to be there. I have to have that experience. So it goes back to my journey, my acceptance of myself, and that’s where mindfulness comes into play. That’s why I love the practice of mindfulness.

Lane: How do you do it? How do you, how do you accept?

Tamar: Uh, that’s something I’ve had to work hard on. I think because I used to be, so I have these, I found out I had last year, I have these co-dependent traits, which are not, not happy about that. And I’m like more seriously. And my main one though was allowing the behaviors of others to affect me.

Um, and. In our online space that can happen. Even with people that don’t know you. And I used to get offended. And now I’m like, well, you don’t know me. You don’t know me. And. Well the same thing, right? I think that, because I’ve worked on my emotional sobriety, which we’ll talk about later, I don’t allow that to happen anymore.

And I look at it like…that’s their part, I have more empathy in my life now. So if somebody annoys me or pisses me off or says something that I’m like, okay, I don’t like being around you. As I can, I choose how I react to that or respond to that. And I just can’t anymore. Sometimes it’s just better not to respond.

Lane: Don’t answer. Pause. Do not hit that red button or you can hit the red button and pause. Maybe that’s it. Do not answer. Do not interact. Yeah. I had something happen when the pandemic first hit. I just went back to that moment. It was not a fun moment interacting with a large group of people with large, uh, many personalities.

And, uh, I had to be emotionally stable and sober through this argument. People were arguing. I am not good with that kind of, um, conflict. When people raise their voices and somebody called me a bully and I was like, whoa, what’s happening here. Uh, and I had to pause. I just stood there. I shut off my car.

And I paused and I just took a breath.

I have not come back from that moment. 100%. I met like 98%. Uh, I had to dig deep and look at like what, you know, what was going on for me in that heated moment where people were arguing and yelling at me and calling me a bully, um, and how different people react to different situations.

Everybody’s coming to the table with different ideas and how they are going to respond and yeah. Having a flexible mindset, you know, how you talk about this in the work that we do, um, makes all the difference, right. Instead of having a fixed mindset, having that kind of more emotional, uh, wellness, resiliency, and oh, It’s still being like, I’m missing that 2%.

Like I go back to that time like I just did like 30 seconds ago and I’m like, Ooh, right. I want that to go away. So I have to really, I have to dig deeper into my belief system. Like, what’s wrong with me? Why am I being still affected by that? Why am I so charged about that one moment? Do you know? Oh, this deep work.

It is nobody likes to be called a bully. Let me just tell you that right now. Who does that? Who called? Who assholes? You know, like, like who’s my, you’re a bully, like who does that?

Tamar: I’m going to have to work on that.

Lane: It’s like when somebody calls you out, it’s like, no, there is a way to have a conversation and a discussion about an incident where a moment isn’t there. Ah, see, this is my judgment. Judgment’s coming out right now. My judgment’s coming out clearly.

Tamar: I think when people have high emotional intelligence, though, they learn that they learn how to communicate.

They learn how to foster relationships better. Like, I don’t like conflict either. Like I’m just like, Ugh, it’s gross. And so I’m like, let’s get away from the conflict as much as possible. And I don’t ever want to be back there again. And I would avoid it in the past, but I think. You know, when there are those moments, that’s when you have the maturity and emotional intelligence to pull yourself aside with that person one-on-one to talk to them.

One-on-one and not, you know, cause I’m part of a group right now where there’s so much conflict going on and people are calling each other out in front. And I don’t like that kind of like it’s bad energy and I think. For me, I’m working on my emotional sobriety. Also shows me who I want to spend my time with and who I do.

Not because if I’m going to be around somebody and I have to protect my energy all the time, then maybe they’re not meant to be in my life. Like they’re meant to teach me a lesson. You know, I’ve learned lots of lessons.

Lane: Yeah. Maybe they’re there at that moment. To be the asshole to call me the bully, whatever it is. Right, right. Just so I can have that introspection and have a greater willingness to change to improve my emotional intelligence and my emotional wellness. Right. I’m always talking about that in the connected, calm life.

It’s like at the end of the day, it’s all about emotional wellness. How do you play the game today?

Tamar: Ooh. Oh, that’s a tough one. Tough, you know, the lesson I’ve learned out of it too, is to have a voice and to say something, right? Because sometimes you need to say something to somebody. If they, you know, I, I am learning to help other people learn how to treat me.

Right. Because I’ll do certain things and they treat me a certain way and I will only add to it, or I can put up those boundaries and say something and say, no, you can’t treat me that way. It’s a work in progress. I don’t like doing it. I’m going, to be honest.

Lane: Like I don’t I’m like, how, why do you think that is like

so interesting the human experience and how we’re conditioned?

Tamar: I think some of us just like to have things like. The steady, you know, I do, I don’t, I don’t like too high or too low. Like I finally got myself in a place in my life where I am kind of that even keel. So when something rocks the boat, I’m like, whoa, hanging on for dear life.

I don’t want to go in the water.

Lane: No. So I guess, this opens up the door. Emotional sobriety. How do we get there? Um, so I want to first, the first time when I, um, you know, our friend Google gives us a lot of information and, uh, when you put in emotional sobriety, all these other things that people are searching for comes up, which is brilliant.

And one of the questions is what does white-knuckling sobriety mean? Which is the opposite where, or could be viewed as the opposite of emotional sobriety. Uh, so according to the American psychological association, uh, emotional maturity is defined as a high and appropriate level of emotional control and expression.

Emotional immaturity on the other hand is a tendency to express emotions without restraint or dis portion only to the situation calling somebody a bully disproportionate.

Tamar: Doesn’t give, I’ll say that. Did you just add that in there?

Lane: I just kind of add that in. Do you see what I’m saying? That’s what we’re talking about here. Emotional sobriety. So how do we, how do we experience emotional recovery every day? Right? Cause some days are just bad. Some days you wake up on the, you know, on the wrong side of the bed and you’re just like tired or your kid’s like late or your husband’s like grumpy or the dog made a big pile of poop in the living room.

Like, okay. Life on life’s terms and you deal with it.

Tamar: I consider myself fortunate right now because I’m single. I live by myself. So all of those external factors that somebody else could bring into my home unless they break-in and, you know, a dog breaks into my home and does that, I wish would not be cool.

Um, I can work on the side of myself now when it comes to other people in my circle. So I, I’m very grateful, but when you said white-knuckling, I’m like. It was because I didn’t have a belief in a higher power. Like I, that was the first part that I was like, Nope, not doing that.

Because I was that asshole who made fun of people who had any sort of religious beliefs, spiritual beliefs, like, oh yeah, because I was. For like my, the whole time I drank so 22 years. Oh, geez. Right. Like I was, I think back to it now and I said some really stupid things to people. Right. I’m sure now that I’m thinking about it, I have more amends to make.

But, um, yeah, when I came, when I came into recovery and I was told, you know, you got to find this higher power. I’m like, No, I’m not doing that. Like, there’s nothing that was watching over me. There was because I’m alive. But like, I think about that time when I was white-knuckling it, where every time I drive by a patio and I’d see people drinking beers, I’m like, what am I going to do this summer?

Like we talked about it in, our fun episode. Like my life is over and it wasn’t until. Because I was so desperate, I think to keep this and I started going to church, like, I don’t go, I know I’m like, I need to do something because it was suggested to me that I start to listen more. And so I had a friend of mine tell me, you know, you go home and I want you to pray.

Okay. Um, she’s like, I’m taking you to church on Sunday. I was like, seriously. And she’s like, you’re, you’re coming. You have to do what you’d be willing to do to take. And she goes, I want you to go and pray that it’s okay to let go and let God, and you can stop running your life and all these things, I’m like fine.

And so I did that and I was like, okay, God, or whatever you are. And I just had this conversation. And then, so we went to church on Sunday. I was very, it did not want to go. And we sat there and it was a really good-looking youth pastor so I was like, okay, this is okay. Like I can stay here for an hour and a half.

This is cool. Cause he’s hot. Cause he’s hot. And I was single. I mean, yeah, obviously not the type I normally go for, but. He walked over to the side of the stage and I felt like he was looking at us and he said, if you’re here today, because you need to let go and let God you’re in the right place. And I instinct, like, even when I say that it’s still, I still have a physical reaction to that.

The whole service was about letting go and letting God, and it’s okay. You don’t have to run the show anymore. And my friend sitting there beside me, with just a big smile. And I remember walking out of that service and I just sobbed uncontrollably. And since then I have never whitened knuckled it. And I have started to work on my emotional sobriety.

Lane: Because the G O D was in the room. So that’s a little bit of a religious. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because you’re in an actual church with religion, do you remember what kind of, uh, Back of like Christian Catholic.

Tamar: I think Christian, I have no idea because it’s not something that I do, you know, I’ve gone to church occasionally but it’s not my thing… But it was something I needed to do and it got me to where I needed to be at that time.

Lane: Yeah. That’s interesting. Like God was talking to you. Loud you, you heard right. You and it’s so interesting to hear that it was, uh, came in the human form of an attractive male, right.

Because I’m sure if it was some old crotchety talking up that you have been like, not like. No, this is what I love. Uh, the human experience, the human spiritual experience for each of us. It’s so unique, so different. And it’s like right on time. It shows us what we need when we need it right on time.

You couldn’t have planned that. That was a breaking point of your emotional journey of recovery. Yeah. And where you, uh, in the recovery program then, or were you just, you were just white-knuckling it until,

Tamar: Oh no, I was in a recovery program.

Lane: You were okay. Got it.

Tamar: That’s where I got the advice and I started listening from that point on.

Lane: Got it. Oh, that’s great. I don’t, I don’t think I haven’t experienced like that.

Tamar: Bummer. It was pretty cool. And she told me too, you need to like, say, God, it needs to be like bright, loud, obvious, because I don’t do subtle. I’m doing subtle a little bit now, but it’s like, it has to kind of be in my face. Cause I’ll just miss it. I didn’t miss that.

Lane: Right. But that’s, there’s a lot of people that just miss it all the time because we’re so busy. We’re busy. We don’t want to feel, we don’t want to stop. We got to go and we have a list of stuff that we need to get done. So I, I love your little story.

Tamar: Thank you.

Lane: Thanks for sharing that.

Tamar: Well, it has to do with emotional sobriety, right? That I think that was the stepping stone. That was that first step. That’s like, okay, here’s more and I’m not alone. I think that was the moment. I didn’t feel alone in this.

Lane: With the hot pastor.

Tamar: I emailed him. Oh yeah. I told him he changed my life.

He deserved that. I mean, he, sir, I’m sorry about when you know, you look that good, you deserve an email.

Lane: That says you saved and changed my life.

Tamar: Yeah. I think men, I think he wasn’t single, so I couldn’t, you know, pursue it. Couldn’t go that way. No, no, I let that go.

Lane: Okay. So now that you’re approaching 10 years of recovery, The emotional wellness path and emotional sobriety, uh, slow going, or are you all in on it?

Tamar: All in it don’t get me wrong. There are times when I’m triggered,

Lane: Triggered, let’s use a different word… charged.

Tamar: Charged. Yeah. Set off.

Lane: Set off. Yes, there we go. That’s a good

Tamar: one. Um, You know, so it can, it can snowball very quickly, but I’m very aware of them because I think in my journey, I’m very, I like to do the investigative stuff. Like, okay, why do I react that way? And what’s making me feel that way. And, and I’m just kind of there right now.

Lane: Slow investigating. Yeah. A lot of. I’m included in this. I think, uh, we do want to go slow, but life gets in the way and gets busy. And then we forget that we are on this emotionally spiritual kind of path and, uh, the 12 steps or this 12, the 12-step community.

Right. Uh, I’m gonna read what it says here. I think this is kind of cool. Uh, it says while physical sobriety is the act of not using addictive substances, emotional sobriety is the skillset that aids a person in not utilizing addictive substances while without emotional sobriety, a person will have a very difficult time with physical sobriety.

And I will agree with that 100%. Would you

Tamar: Yeah. Didn’t we have that conversation the other day in Clubhouse about physical sobriety?

Lane: Yes. So good. That’s right. So if you’re hanging out with us, we’re over at Clubhouse on Wednesdays at 12:15 PST Clubhouse, and come hang out with us. Uh, and we have live conversations over there. Yeah. I think physical abstinence is great. It’s a start, but there’s so much more that happens. There’s just this unraveling that occurs or awakenings or aha moments we go and we have to go deeper. We have to. Yeah, I go back to that being, just having the gift of pause and being able to pause in my early recovery, my friend, John would say, uh, you have one second to pause, start pausing.

I’d be like what? He’s like you’re a year. You’re one year old. You’re one, one second. Pause before you react. He goes, every year, you’ll get an extra second. And I thought he was like, Joe. But it’s been my experience that I can pop. I can, my pause is a lot longer now. Like it’s even more than 25 seconds sometimes it’s like maybe a day before I react.

Yeah. Which is huge. That’s good. I know, because I used to react right away. I remember back in the, uh, back in the early two thousand when I was. Oh, my God. I was running this lingerie company and my phone was embedded in my hand. And I was like dealing with China and just designers, just crazy.

And I would just be like, like reacting, not being present with like, what was happened because I had so many deadlines and time zones and one time. I messed it up because I sent the wrong text, to the wrong person, and that’s hard to come back

Tamar: Hard, really hard,

Lane: And having the humility to say, oh, that wasn’t meant for you.

But now that you’ve seen it, I had no recourse, no response, nothing. I had nothing because I was thrilled. I was calling the person out, but I thought I was calling the person out to my partner, not to the person

Tamar: Now, you know?

Lane: Yeah. It was, it was, I’m not pretty, uh, I wasn’t able to get out of it, but it was yeah. Having that phone embedded. I didn’t have 25 seconds. I didn’t even use the 10 seconds. That’s when I went, I didn’t have 15 seconds. I thought it was like no pauses. Cause that’s something that I practiced today is using that 25 seconds before I do anything because I don’t want to, I don’t want to have to sweep up and deal with wreckage for my, um, undisciplined.

Because it takes discipline to pause, right? I’m I am, an alcoholic in recovery. Who’s still very reactionary because I’m very passionate about things, you know? So I have to just be mindful of my pause and know that it’s in there. It’s hard, especially with parenting because Adrian will say something and I’ll be like, and then, you know, my husband I’ll be like, why are you engaging with him?

He’s 12. That’s exactly. You know, he’s 12. I’m like, oh, and then, and then he’ll say something, I’ll be like, yeah, but. And so even like, oh please, you’re not, no, you are not more emotionally intelligent than I am. No, you do not have more AI than I do.

Tamar: No, it’s not happening,

Lane: But that’s, you know, somebody who’s not in, you know, have the kind of alcoholic, you know, thinking behaviors that I go back to that reactionary response to my 12-year-old. Yeah, not nip it in the bud.

Tamar: I know it’s those things that come. I had a friend of mine tell me that, you know, she experienced that the other day with her husband, right. Something happened and she said something came out of her mouth and as it came out of her mouth, she’s thinking, oh my god. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done that, where I’m like, oh, did I just really say that that sucks? Like, how am I going to come back from that now? And that pause, as you talked about is so powerful.

And I think this is where, like, knowing where your emotions show up on your body, which is something that I have been living. Yep. I’ve gone through the exercise right. Of the meditation of, you know, how sadness shows up. How does anger show up? So as soon as anger, my chest will go tight and it goes instantly to my head.

Like, it’s almost like I see the color red. If that physical reaction happens to me, I know. Okay. Do not open your mouth right now tomorrow. Like you seriously to turn around or walk away.

Lane: But how long did it take you to get.

Tamar: 10 years. Yeah,

Lane: Yeah. So this is, I think this is a common, uh, misconception where our fellow humans, they find recovery and then they think, oh, I can do this.

I can really, I’ve got this. I know my emotions. I am spiritually and mentally fit. I’m going to go out into the world and, you know, somebody cuts them off in traffic and they’re like turning red in the face. Right. But they don’t even know it. They don’t recognize it because they haven’t internalized this deep understanding of emotional sobriety and what it takes.

It takes a lot, it takes a lot of support. It takes a lot of time. It takes a community. It’s a lot. It is a lot. That was a rant, but it’s so worth it. It’s so worth it to like live a day by day by day to build that emotional resiliency, you know? And it’s something that you give yourself every single day.

Like it didn’t happen for you just overnight. Can you imagine if it did?

Tamar: No, actually, no, it’d be so weird. Yeah. It’s like, why am I not responding or reacting to this? That’s strange.

Lane: Right. And you would miss it. You’d be missing out on life. Right. So all of these emotional bombs that we have in our life are experiences that we get to treasure.

Like I’m going to go back to the crazy someone calling me a bully. Like I hold on to that moment. I think, as I’ve been, as we’ve been talking about. As a, a point of reference to be able to share with somebody else, who’s now called a bully because otherwise, because I’m constantly working on my practice, those old moments, dissipate, I don’t need them, but the ones that kind of sink into me, I know I’m going to use them. Does that make sense? It doesn’t make sense for important, super important that we don’t have to, um, beat ourselves up and say, why am I still carrying this around? You know, somebody said the other day to me like, oh, you got to do some work on that.

And I thought you know what, dude, I do my work every day, every day. I’m like in my world working. And it was, it was odd to me that they don’t know me that well, so it was fine that they said that, but it’s the emotional wellness journey is, I mean, it’s not for everybody.

Tamar: No, it’s not. And you know, I’ve been working on my food. Well, my entire life let’s be honest. Food is tough. It is a tough one. And I think, you know, I see this over and over again is that people. They can’t handle their emotions. Right. They’ve got, say, they’re sad. And I did this up until last year December, I finally hit a bottom and reached out to a friend of mine.

I said I’m done. Like I can’t do this anymore. And because every time I felt an emotion. I would try and numb that emotion with chicken strips or ice cream or whatever else. And so that would cause like an array of different emotions that now I’m not dealing with the sadness. Now I’m dealing with the shame and the guilt and I feel sick and, you know, and I just start beating myself up.

So it’s like, why do I do that? Like if I just would’ve paused and said, you know, what, why am I sad right now? Well, I’ve got this sad thing happening in my life. It’s okay. How about instead of reaching for. It’s gonna sell, like, you know, be that instant reward. I go, okay, let’s reach out to somebody in my circle, which I do now.

I think that’s how I’ve learned to stop that kind of behavior by adding all the different emotions and being stuck in my head forever and ever I reach out to somebody and I said, this is how I’m feeling and we talk it through and that’s it. And then it’s gone and I don’t feel all the other feels, feels, took a while to get there though.

Lane: Again, we need every single moment for our life to be full every single moment, every single moment to create the life that we’re living. Do you want to mention The Now What academy?

Tamar: Do I ever?

Lane: Yes, you just made me it, it. Like lit up in my brain, what you were talking about. So I was like, okay. I think this is a good moment to talk about the now what academy

Tamar: Basically. Do you want to change your life?

Lane: I know that’s a big question, right? Because a lot of people would be like, ah, yeah, maybe it’s not going to work for me.

Tamar: That’s why we do the work that we do. Right? We’re your tour guides on that journey, but it’s like, I got frustrated with not getting what I wanted in life. I felt complacent. I felt like now, what, like what, what do I do? And for me, I mean, a friend of mine, we were talking about this the other day about when you’re in your forties. And some people think, well, my life is half over. Well, you still have another half to go. That’s a long time. And maybe some people think that change isn’t possible.

And so the, now what academy is a blend of magic magical. I just get excited when we talk about it, where we work on emotional intelligence, right? We look at your belief systems, we get you more direction and clarity, and we talk about how the brain works and how you can change.

What would you like to add to that?

Lane: Well, I was just, as you were saying that I was thinking about, you know, women who are in their forties, fifties, sixties, how perhaps their kids are older, you know, perhaps their kids have moved out, they’re empty nesters and there is that kind of, what am I doing now?

What do I want to do? And again, because we live in our culture and a society today where, you know, COVID has run our lives for the past two years. It’s this, what am I doing? So, how do we answer that question? It’s hard to do it when you’re alone. It’s really hard because everything else gets in the way of that question.

And sometimes it’s nice to have a tour guide. To kind of take you down, you know, oh, here, let’s go down this little canal street. Right. So you can see the little shops that you would miss. You know, I think that’s a great way to share about it because when I go to a new city, I love exploring by myself.

I do, but that’s why we always hire a photographer to come with us. So much better. And then the photographer takes photos of us in the city, you know, that. So having this tour guide, uh, broadens the experience. Allows it allows me to go deeper.

I love it. So in The Now What academy, that’s what we’re going to be doing. We’re going to be touring, touring and playing really good music.

Tamar: It’s going to be fun from the nineties. Good times. Good times.

Lane: So you can find out information at thenowwhatacademy.com

Tamar: It’s very exciting. And if you get on the waitlist, you’ll get a discount.

Lane: Yes. I forget on there. Now everybody loves a discount. I’m like a man, I don’t even care how much it costs. What is that? I need a discount.

There’s a, uh, you know, one of these internet marketers, uh, she’s in the mindfulness meditation space. And I had never heard of her before. And somebody sent me, her, her information. I’m always fascinated with what other teachers are doing. So I checked her out and you get five practices for free, and then it stops you and says, and here are 30 practices for $27.

And I was like, no, that just. Yucky, you know, and then I said, no, and it sent me a message, but you can have a discount. And I was like, oh, maybe I want the discount. All of a sudden I was like, oh, a discount. I was like, no, forget it just stay focused here.

Tamar: The moral of the story is to get on the list.

Lane: Yeah. On the list. The Now What Academy.

Tamar: And then everything else just, you know, join us in the community. It’s less than a child latte or about the cost of a child loss. Yeah, it’s really good that Starbucks, oh, meditations presentations, Hangouts so much goodness going on in there, and fun.

I mean, we’re going to have tournaments and retreats. I mean, if you listen to, I think. You know, last week’s episode, apparently we’re all going to Vegas at one point, there’s going to be lots of things going on. Palm Springs, Palm

Lane: Springs. Yes. Palm Springs, not Vegas. Palm Springs. I’m changing it. I’m redirecting us.

Yeah. I’m already looking at properties. So please get on the waitlist. You’re going to want to be a part of this. I promise you, uh, my son and I are looking at properties, so we’re going to be your best friends.

Tamar: So if you’re looking for new besties, come join us.

Lane: Smart. I love emotional sobriety. I think we’re both in the middle of our boat rowing. We’re making it. Yeah, slow and steady-going to win the race.

Tamar: We are going to run the race together.

Lane: All right, friends, we will catch you later. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for being here. Make sure to rate and review this show over on iTunes so others can find it and share it with a friend, right?